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(election '08) productive response to an ignorant email.

edited October 2008 in Random
Jolly Corks said my comment was too long so I'm breaking it into 4 posts.

As most of you know, North Carolina is going to be one of the most important states in the up coming election. As some of you know, I am from North Carolina and have lots of family and friends still in the state. This morning, Kevin and I were (likely accidently) included in a chain email being sent between some old high school friends. Who knows how many people saw it before us. First the email, then my thoughts to follow. I'm uploading all the images and embolding in the same spots as the email so you get the full effect.
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Comments

  • edited October 2008
    Subject Fwd: BUSH'S RESIGNATION SPEECH--!!!

    BUSH'S RESIGNATION SPEECH

    The following 'speech' was written recently by an ordinary Maine-iac [a resident of the People's Republic of Maine ]. While satirical in nature, all satire must have a basis in fact to be effective. This is an excellent piece by a person who does not write for a living.

    The speech George W. Bush might give:

    image

    Normally, I start these things out by saying 'My Fellow Americans.' Not doing it this time. If the polls are any indication, I don't know who more than half of you are anymore. I do know something terrible has happened, and that you're really not fellow Americans any longer.

    I'll cut right to the chase here: I quit. Now before anyone gets all in a lather about me quitting to avoid impeachment, or to avoid prosecution or something, let me assure you: There's been no breaking of laws or impeachable offenses in this office.

    image

    The reason I'm quitting is simple. I'm fed up with you people. I'm fed up because you have no understanding of what's really going on in the world. Or of what's going on in this once-great nation of ours. And the majority of you are too damned lazy to do your homework and figure it out.

    Let's start local. You've been sold a bill of goods by politicians and the news media.

    image

    Meanwhile, all you can do is whine about gas prices, and most of you are too damn stupid to realize that gas prices are high because there's increased demand in other parts of the world, and because a small handful of noisy idiots are more worried about polar bears and beachfront property than your economic security.

    We face real threats in the world. Don't give me this 'blood for oil' thing. If I were trading blood for oil I would've already seized Iraq 's oil fields and let the rest of the country go to hell. And don't give me this 'Bush Lied...People Died' crap either. If I were the liar you morons take me for, I could've easily had chemical weapons planted in Iraq so they could be 'discovered.' In stead, I owned up to the fact that the intelligence was faulty.

    image

    Let me remind you that the rest of the world thought Saddam had the goods, same as me. Let me also remind you that regime change in Iraq was official US policy before I came into office. Some guy named ' Clinton ' established that policy. Bet you didn't know that, did you?
  • edited October 2008
    Now some of you morons want to be led by a junior senator with no understanding of foreign policy or economics, and this nitwit says we should attack Pakistan , a nuclear ally. And then he wants to go to Iran and make peace with a terrorist who says he's going to destroy us. While he's doing that, he wants to give Iraq to al Qaeda, Afghanistan to the Taliban, Israel to the Palestinians, and your money to the IRS so the government can give welfare to illegal aliens, who he will make into citizens, so they can vote to re-elect him. He also thinks it's okay for Iran to have nuclear weapons, and we should stop our foreign aid to Israel. Did you sleep through high school?

    You idiots need to understand that we face a unique enemy. Back during the cold war, there were two major competing political and economic model s squaring off. We won that war, but we did so because fundamentally, the Communists wanted to survive, just as we do. We were simply able to out spend and out-tech them.

    That's not the case this time. The soldiers of our new enemy don't care if they survive. In fact, they want to die. That'd be fine, as long as they weren't also committed to taking as many of you with them as they can. But they are. They want to kill you, and the bastards are all over the globe.

    You should be grateful that they haven't gotten any more of us here in the United States since September 11. But you're not. That's because you've got no idea how hard a small number of intelligence, military, law enforcement, and homeland security people have worked to make sure of that. When this whole mess started, I warned you that this would be a long and difficult fight.. I'm disappointed how many of you people think a long and difficult fight amounts to a single season of 'Survivor.'

    image

    Instead, you've grown impatient. You're incapable of seeing things through the long lens of history, the way our enemies do. You think that wars should last a few months, a few years, tops.

    Making matters worse, you actively support those who help the enemy. Every time you buy th e New York Times, every time you send a donation to a cut-and-run Democrat's political campaign, well, dang it, you might just as well FedEx a grenade launcher to a Jihadist. It amounts to the same thing.

    In this day and age, it's easy enough to find the truth. It's all over the Internet. It just isn't on the pages of the New York Times, USA Today, or on NBC News. But even if it were, I doubt you'd be any smarter. Most of you would rather watch American Idol or Dancing with Stars.

    I could say more about your expectations that the government will always be there to bail you out, even if you're too stupid to leave a city that 's below sea level and has a hurricane approaching.

    image

    I could say more about your insane belief that government, not your own wallet, is where the money comes from. But I've come to the conclusion that were I to do so, it would sail right over your heads.

    So I quit. I'm going back to Crawford. I've got an energy-efficient house down there (Al Gore could only dream) and the capability to be fully self-sufficient for years. No one ever heard of Crawford before I got elected, and as soon as I'm done here pretty much no one will ever hear of it again. Maybe I'll be lucky enough to die of old age before the last pillars of America fall.

    image

    Oh, and by the way, Cheney's quitting too. That means Pelosi is your new President. You asked for it. Watch what she does carefully, because I still have a glimmer of hope that there are just enough of you remaining who are smart enough to turn this thing around in 2008.

    So that's it. God bless what's left of America.

    Some of you know what I mean. The rest of you, kiss off.


    PS - You might want to start learning Farsi, and buy a Koran.
  • edited October 2008
    Okay... so the obvious first response is "Oh my heavens!!".

    Go ahead, get that out of your system. I'll wait... ...

    This really is how the rest of the country thinks. These are good people. Some of our best friends, and the last thing I want to do is reply to them with an email telling them how stupid they are. Most of these guys think the world of Kevin and I, so I can't just let something like this slide by. This seems like a great opportunity to send back a rational, well thought out response. It can't be offensive or condescending.

    I'll work on it this afternoon, but some of you know more about this stuff than I do. Any help and advice would be appreciated.
  • yikes.

    At first, when I read the 'I don't know who you are anymore' bit, I thought oh good! Everyone is realizing that Bush et al. (and I include McCain here) are completely out of touch with the reality of our economy, foreign policy, energy use, etc., and the effect these policies have had on the average American. But then I read on...

    I can offer to teach Farsi to anyone who is interested. :)

    It seems a good portion of this is focused on Obama and his foreign policy, and makes completely inaccurate statements about what he 'wants to do', pretty much outright lying. Maybe excerpt parts of Obama's debate with McCain where he specifically talks about foreign policy.

    And doesn't anyone understand how it's policies like Bush's 'war' in Iraq that have gotten us in the crappy situation we are in today vis a vis the Middle East and general hatred towards America?
  • edited October 2008
    These sites might help:

    http://www.republicansforobama.org/
    http://origin.barackobama.com/issues/foreign_policy/
    www.factcheck.org

    I was just downstate this weekend and even in Illinois, there are people who refer to Obama as a Muslim or terrorist still(my sister's neighbors).

    I think that racism may play a major role there...

    Also, ask your friends their opinions on specific policy issues and see how they respond. They may just be sorely misinformed.

    Love that positive attitude! :)
  • edited October 2008
    Ralph Stanley, the remaining Stanley Brother, has created a new radio ad endorsing Obama

    He's from Virginiey, but still... if that doesn't convince your Appalachian kin, I don't know what will.
  • edited October 2008
    Also, this bit is pretty rich in light of W's recent actions re: Wall Street
    I could say more about your expectations that the government will always be there to bail you out, even if you're too stupid to leave a city that 's below sea level and has a hurricane approaching.

    I could say more about your insane belief that government, not your own wallet, is where the money comes from. But I've come to the conclusion that were I to do so, it would sail right over your heads.
    I'm going to assume it was written prior to the past week's events. In any case, whoever wrote it has some serious balls.

    I'll also assume they mean capital, not money. Money really does come from the government. W and his buddy Ben Bernanke have seen fit to start printing a lot more of it lately. Of course, this will mean that the money in your own wallet will be worth less, but I'm guessing the explanation of that might sail over the author's head.

    You can try making your own commodity-backed money sometime, and putting that in your wallet, but don't be surprised when George & Ben decide they don't like it and send men with guns to seize millions of dollars of your assets.
  • yeah, some of the over-the-top snarkiness and ridiculous comments made me wonder if this wasn't completely sarcastic (but, sadly, it's not).

    Yay for Ralph Stanley!
  • Okay, I'm trying to write this thing now. Any specific points I should bring up about each one? The points I am planning to dispute are:

    - gas prices are high because there's increased demand in other parts of the world, and because a small handful of noisy idiots are more worried about polar bears and beachfront property than your economic security.

    - Now some of you morons want to be led by a junior senator with no understanding of foreign policy or economics, and this nitwit says we should attack Pakistan , a nuclear ally. And then he wants to go to Iran and make peace with a terrorist who says he's going to destroy us. While he's doing that, he wants to give Iraq to al Qaeda, Afghanistan to the Taliban, Israel to the Palestinians, and your money to the IRS so the government can give welfare to illegal aliens, who he will make into citizens, so they can vote to re-elect him. He also thinks it's okay for Iran to have nuclear weapons, and we should stop our foreign aid to Israel.

    - When this whole mess started, I warned you that this would be a long and difficult fight.. I'm disappointed how many of you people think a long and difficult fight amounts to a single season of 'Survivor.'

    - Making matters worse, you actively support those who help the enemy. Every time you buy th e New York Times, every time you send a donation to a cut-and-run Democrat's political campaign, well, dang it, you might just as well FedEx a grenade launcher to a Jihadist. It amounts to the same thing.

    - I could say more about your expectations that the government will always be there to bail you out, even if you're too stupid to leave a city that 's below sea level and has a hurricane approaching.

    - I could say more about your insane belief that government, not your own wallet, is where the money comes from. But I've come to the conclusion that were I to do so, it would sail right over your heads.

    - You might want to start learning Farsi, and buy a Koran.
  • yeah, I'd go for those.
  • This is a tough one. Primarily, your response (no matter how well crafted) won't do anything to sway the author of this diatribe (or anybody thinking like him). This person represents a minority even among Republicans, so there is nothing you could say to convince him to vote for Obama. But if you respond to this, you really are targeting other people on the list - your old friends - who may not hold such extreme views. They may be just very uninformed, traditionally conservative or caught up in fear and prejudice and thus tend to be receptable to this kind of non-sense.

    It's probably very hard to substantially sway anybody by email, but you could at least clarify some of the most obvious falsehoods, argue some of your views and make an honest and passionate appeal to soften up their positions a bit and, who knows, maybe you lay the groundwork for a bigger change of heart at some point in the future -- hopefully before November 4th.

    First off, i think you should avoid ad-hominem attacks at all cost. Since you are not addressing the author directly, it would be pretty pointless. I also don't think it's wise to chide people for having voted for Bush or to bring up previous positions that turned out to be failures. No i-told-you-so's, you'll just harden their views. Start with a blank slate and thus allow them to think and argue freely without them having to carry the baggage of perviously held positions. In fact, if you can bring yourself to telling them that you voted Bush yourself, that would be a great starting point for effective arguments. Since these people think highly of you and Kevin, each of your argument should explicitly reestablish that connection of trust. It's an old trick that's used exhaustingly these days (Think "John McCain is a great friend but...") but done right it will work great, eg taking the inexperience argument: "When Obama first started running for president I thought 'No way', he's too young, inexperienced, just not ready yet. But lately i've been thinking. Is experience really an important factor...and so on" You establish a common position, then lead them away, softly. I'm sure you can think of better examples that are more tailored towards your friends than my stock reply.

    Even better, if you can think of any arguments that you can personalize, something from your shared past in High School etc.. Maybe you even know some of their weak spots that you can exploit with a well-placed argument. Don't be afraid to be really passionate but make sure every passionate statement is backed up by a firm rational argument. I know, this is very generic advise, but it's hard to be specific when you don't know those people at all.

    But as we talked about Saturday, you generally will have better success talking to people in person when you go to NC this week. And the best 'targets' are those people with whom you enjoy a special relationship, where there's lots of inherent, unshakable trust (parents, grandparents, other relatives, best friends, that ex-girlfriend who's still madly in love with you, etc). Those are the people that really can be convinced with the right arguments.

    NC is really close at this point, so you guys can really make a difference. If you need any resources to make this happen, open up a Pledgie account (http://www.pledgie.com/) or ask for donations via PayPal. I will certainly contribute. Good Luck!
  • edited October 2008
    Posted By: ChaseOkay, I'm trying to write this thing now. Any specific points I should bring up about each one? The points I am planning to dispute are:
    [snip]
    I don't think you should respond to any of these too directly. Distill the essence of the argument and talk about it on your own terms. If you are actually trying to respond to the nonsensical angry rhetoric, you are just taking the bait and it will make you look less credible.
    You might want to start learning Farsi, and buy a Koran.
    The only way to respond to this is with a good-natured, light-hearted joke. If you can't think of a good one, ignore this silly swipe.
  • good luck, chase.

    last weekend my lil sister lily came to visit. i thought aaron was going to dump a pot of coffee on her at brunch when she said that massachusetts (where she resides) is a democratic state anyway so she doesn't need to vote. also, IF she was registered, she might get called for jury duty and that would totally suck. uh, check please.

    then middle sister katie came in this week for a job interview. she tells us on thursday she's going downtown to a party to watch the debate. this is shocking b.c. katie is more aeropastle than political. i asked who was sponsoring the party and she said she didn't know. i looked it up online and it was the young republicans! i was aghast - i called her gfriend and barked you are going to a republican party. she said she was life long R, but unsure about Palin. i said go to the undecideds party, ladies!

    katie came into our room moments later - all flashy dressed southport style and said "do i look like a republican?" - i said "no you look like more of a democrat. but who knows, R's are typically in finance so maybe you'll meet a rich guy. but let him know that if you hook-up tonight and you get preganant, that you are going to have to carry that baby to term b.c. you gave up your right to choose."
    she looked at me quizzically.

    why am i telling you . . ..
    politics gets personal. man it was a weird feeling to know family friends (and family) were R's all of a sudden. really? really. really? and what do i do with that information?

    it seems in my family, and maybe others, that politics isn't necessarily debated - or discussed - but reviewed. it can offend people when you try to object to their ideals or politics. and sometimes i think that is b.c. it's uncertain ground for them - and by them i mean those who don't ask questions or research a decision but default - you don't really want to talk politics if you've made up your mind about something but aren't prepared to answer any questions (palin).

    like i bet a lot of people are voting based on fey's palin sketches - and good - i hope that propaganda is helping the obama campaign - but it's true, you might get voters from that. and the cnn pool of undecideds watching the vp debate - one lady said, you know i felt good about everything biden said, i'm voting for obama. done and done - not a lot of consideration perhaps but she's on our side. if she had said palin, i would have vomited my pizza.

    politics is sort of off limits - unless you agree with who you are talking with. have you found that?
  • busy day, and I'm just getting to write this. Here's what I have so far and it's already getting to wordy. I'm afraid they won't even read it.

    -------------------------------------------------------------
    Hey guys, it's Chase. I read the email this morning and thought it was extremely important to respond with some thoughts. I love you guys. I'm not trying to make any enemies here. It's not forwarded from someone else... this is written by a very concerned friend. Me. Even living in Illinois, I was not sure about Obama this time last year. Now I am proudly supporting Barack Obama this Fall. I completely respect anyone who doesn't agree with me as long as you have an informed opinion, and not an opinion shaped by emails like this one. I spent some of the day researching and responding because it is that important. We have to get this right this November.

    This email is full of misinformation, written in a satire style more suited for the tabloids at Winn-Dixie. It's easy for an ordinary Maine-iac to send this because he doesn't have to answer to anyone. It makes a fool of anyone trying to make an educated decision in November. It would be silly to sit here and respond to every single point made. I will talk about a few though.

    "gas prices are high because there's increased demand in other parts of the world, and because a small handful of noisy idiots are more worried about polar bears and beachfront property than your economic security."
    I know gas is a touchy subject back home. Every conversation I have with mom these days turns into a conversation about gas prices, gas shortages, etc. It is true that gas prices are set by the global market but we consume over 25% of the worlds oil. The ultimate reason we have outrageous prices is because we use oil in an outrageous volume. My dad is looking into buying a hybrid minivan to help cut down on all the gas they use. A Honda... because Japan has been developing efficient cars for 20 years.

    Obama is against off shore drilling because it is not the best solution for the crisis. Not because he is overly concerned with polar bears. The fact is off-shore drilling will have little to no effect on our oil production or prices until 2030. 22 years. In those 22 years, the money could be spent developing ways to not need all the dirty gasoline. We would use that money to give my dad a break on the price of that minivan. We would use that money to give Ford a break when they start making efficient vehicles.

    Here is a great article from National Public Radio explaining both candidates position on off-shore drilling.
  • chase, i think your opening so far is great. very effective. keep at it. don't worry about wordiness. you can edit it later...
  • Ugh... that email (the first one) makes me sick. Keri has been having a feud/debate with some jackasses from her high school on Facebook. Less at stake there as they're in Peoria.

    Good luck with the email Chase! Like you suspect and others have said, making it too long will get a TL;DR reaction. Your opening is good so far - keep it friendly, open it up for conversation.

    Remind me to never get in an argument with Sebastian. Dude is straight up manipulative.
  • it's true. I almost threw my scalding hot coffee in her face. the rest of her life she would look at her face scars and tell her kids. please vote...you should vote.
  • edited October 2008
    Laura just got this email from her Mom.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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    Here 's a quick look into the 3 former Fannie Mae executives who brought down Wall Street and where they are now.

    Franklin Raines was a Chairman and Chief Executive Officer at Fannie Mae. Raines was forced to retire from his position with Fannie Mae when auditing discovered severe irregulaties in Fannie Mae's accounting activities. At the time of his departure The Wall Street Journal noted, " Raines, who long defended the company's accounting despite mounting evidence that it wasn't proper, issued a statement late Tuesday conceding that "mistakes were made" and saying he would assume responsibility as he had earlier promised. News reports indicate the company was under growing pressure from regulators to shake up its management in the wake of findings that the company's books ran afoul of generally accepted accounting principles for four years." Fannie Mae had to reduce its surplus by $9 billion.

    Raines left with a "golden parachute valued at $240 Million in benefits. The Government filed suit against Raines when the depth of the accounting scandal became clear. http://housingdoom.com/2006/12/18/fannie-charges/ The Government noted, "The 101 charges reveal how the individuals improperly manipulated earnings to maximize their bonuses, while knowingly neglecting accounting systems and internal controls, misapplying over twenty accounting principles and misleading the regulator and the public. The Notice explains how they submitted six years of misleading and inaccurate accounting statements and inaccurate capital reports that enabled them to grow Fannie Mae in an unsafe and unsound manner." These charges were made in 2006. The Court ordered Raines to return $50 Million Dollars he received in bonuses based on the miss-stated Fannie Mae profits.

    Tim Howard - Was the Chief Financial Officer of Fannie Mae. Howard "was a strong internal proponent of using accounting strategies that would ensure a "stable pattern of earnings" at Fannie. In everyday English - he was cooking the books. The Government Investigation determined that, "Chief Financial Officer, Tim Howard, failed to provide adequate oversight to key control and reporting functions within Fannie Mae,"

    On June 16, 2006, Rep. Richard Baker, R-La., asked the Justice Department to investigate his allegations that two former Fannie Mae executives lied to Congress in October 2004 when they denied manipulating the mortgage-finance giant's income statement to achieve management pay bonuses. Investigations by federal regulators and the company's board of directors since concluded that management did manipulate 1998 earnings to trigger bonuses. Raines and Howard resigned under pressure in late 2004.

    Tim Howard's Golden Parachute to soften his landing from leaving Fannie Mae was estimated at $20 Million!

    Jim Johnson - A former executive at Lehman Brothers and who was later forced from his position as Fannie Mae CEO. A look at the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight's May 2006 report on mismanagement and corruption inside Fannie Mae, and you'll see some interesting things about Johnson. Investigators found that Fannie Mae had hidden a substantial amount of Johnson's 1998 compensation from the public, reporting that it was between $6 million and $7 million when it fact it was $21 million." Johnson is currently under investigation for taking illegal loans from Countrywide while serving as CEO of Fannie Mae.

    Johnson's Golden Parachute was estimated at $28 Million.

    As importantly--

    WHERE ARE THEY NOW?

    FRANKLIN RAINES? Raines works for the Obama Campaign as Chief Economic Advisor

    TIM HOWARD? Howard is also a Chief Economic Advisor to Obama

    JIM JOHNSON? Johnson hired as a Senior Obama Finance Advisor and was selected to run Obama's Vice Presidential Search Committee

    IF OBAMA PLANS ON CLEANING UP THE MESS - HIS ADVISORS HAVE THE EXPERTISE - THEY CREATED THE MESS IN THE FIRST PLACE!!

    Would you trust the men who tore Wall Street down to build the New Wall Street ?


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    BLAH BLAH.. this has been debunked online...
    http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/fanniemae.asp

    but below was my response anyway.


    SEE NEXT POST
  • edited October 2008
    MY RESPONSE PART 1

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Please "REPLY ALL" back to where you got this so those people know the truth. this is just not true...


    First off all this email is all in BOLD so you can pretty much count out the validy of it.. But seriously this chain letter has also been debunked here: http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/fanniemae.asp

    My personal responses are below

    >WHERE ARE THEY NOW?
    >
    >FRANKLIN RAINES? - Raines works for the Obama Campaign as Chief Economic Advisor

    He is NOT his chief economic advisor. Franklin Raines had "taken calls from Barack Obama's presidential campaign seeking his advice on mortgage and housing policy matters once early in 2008. and not even from Obama himself.

    Austan Goolsbee is the Obama campaign's Chief Economic Advisor



    >TIM HOWARD? Howard is also a Chief Economic Advisor to Obama

    Nope. There is nothing that connects these two men.

    Obama's Economic core team consists of three academics -- Austan Goolsbee, 37, a University of Chicago professor and columnist for The New York Times, Jeffrey Liebman, 39, a pension and poverty expert at Harvard University, in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and David Cutler, 41, a Harvard health economist. Also Advising him is former Chairman of the Federal Reserve, Paul Vokler

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austan_Goolsbee
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Volcker
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Liebman
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Cutler



    >JIM JOHNSON? Johnson hired as a Senior Obama Finance Advisor and was selected to run Obama's Vice Presidential Search Committee

    First of all the VP vetting committee isn't "HIRED" they're appointed as UNPAID volunteers. Johnson has been in politics a long time and ran Walter F. Mondale's 1984 presidential campaign as well as helped John F. Kerry in his vice presidential search in 2004. Johnson was part of Obama's a three-person team. Big deal. Obaba said (after Johnson stepped down from the VP vetting committee "I am not vetting my VP search committee for their mortgages.



    >IF OBAMA PLANS ON CLEANING UP THE MESS - HIS ADVISORS HAVE THE EXPERTISE - THEY CREATED THE MESS IN THE FIRST PLACE!!
    >Would you trust the men who tore Wall Street down to build the New Wall Street ?
  • edited October 2008
    MY RESPONSE PART2

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    If you want to talk about Guilt By Association or shady fannie and freddie connections. Let's look at McCain's campaign. We don't have to look far.


    1. Aquiles Suarez, listed as an economic adviser to the McCain campaign in a July 2007 McCain press release, was formerly the director of government and industry relations for Fannie Mae. The Senate Lobbying Database says Suarez oversaw the lending giant's $47,510,000 lobbying campaign from 2003 to 2006.

    2. According to the Senate Lobbying Database, the lobbying firm of Charlie Black, one of McCain's top aides, made at least $820,000 working for Freddie Mac from 1999 to 2004.

    3. The McCain campaign's vice-chair Wayne Berman and its congressional liaison John Green made $1.14 million working on behalf of Fannie Mae for lobbying firm Ogilvy Government Relations. Green made an additional $180,000 from Freddie Mac.

    4. Arther B. Culvahouse Jr., the VP vetter who helped John McCain select Sarah Palin, earned $80,000 from Fannie Mae in 2003 and 2004, while working for lobbying and law firm O'Melveny & Myers LLP. In addition, Politico reports that at least 20 McCain fundraisers have lobbied for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, pocketing at least $12.3 million over the last nine years.

    5. For years McCain campaign manager Rick Davis was head of the Homeownership Alliance, a lobbying association that included Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, real estate agents, homebuilders, and non-profits. According to Politico, the organization opposed congressional attempts at regulation of Fannie and Freddie. Before that Davis founded the lobbying firm Davis, Manafort. Between 1998 and 2008, the firm was paid at least $2.8 million for lobbying Congress. That lobbying firm received payments from Freddie Mac until last month. LET ME REPEAT THAT: Sen. John McCain's campaign manager Rick Davis' firm, Davis Manafort, had been paid $15,000 per month by Freddie Mac, for "consulting", from the end of 2005, when Davis stopped being head of the Homeownership Alliance, until August 2008.


    Let's not forget PHIL GRAMM!

    6. Phil Gramm (the nation of whiners / america is in a mental recession guy) basically authored McCains economic strategy. It was Graham who got the Enron Loophole passed in 2000... with no hearings, no debate. That deregulated not just single trades but entire markets. His wife Wendy Gramm was the CFTC of Enron and on Enron's board of directors. she earned more than $900,000 over the next decade as a result. nice huh.

    In addition, McCain's senior advisor, Charlie Black, (mentioned above) was a lobbyist for the act containing the Enron loophole in 2000, and McCain's finance co-chair, Wayne Berman (also mentioned above), has lobbied more recently against legislation to prevent price gouging.

    Phil Gramm would likely be the secretary of the treasury if McCain is elected POTS.




    These guys are thick as thieves. and we didn't even touch on the Keating 5.


    if you have any more questions about Obama please feel free to chat with us!

    /Aaron
  • Wow, good job, Aaron!

    Chase, your opening is great. I really like the way you're using specific, personal examples to illustrate your points. NC is a complete toss-up right now, which is exciting in itself!
  • Good luck from me too Chase! I do agree with Sebastian above; political viewpoints are rarely changed by rational, factual discussion, it seems, and never by heated argument, however right one may be. Sounds odd to say that but there you go. Use the softly-softly approach!
  • Aaron - why should you vote? Why not exercise one's right to not vote; to deliberately abstain? Philosophically, I mean, not the desperately important need right now to get the Republicans out of office.

    I know a guy who refused to vote in Poland back when it was a one-party state and got thrown in jail for it. Not particularly relevant here, I suppose, but it's made me think about what not voting means.
  • Very interesting stuff

    Chase I'm sure you could crack a joke like...

    Sarah Palin, a former mayor qualified and ready to lead the free world.

    Gerry Springer is a a former mayor, is he qualified to lead the free world? No!!

    This is the same kinda logic as the chewbacca defence, courtesy of South Park.

    Mind you I think Gerry S would be a less scarier nominee for vp.
  • edited October 2008
    m
  • oh america, you silly bitch!






    Link
  • but wait, there's more...





    link

    i mean seriously, how can you response to the rape kit question be, 'she should die!' or 'she should pay double', that just some ignorant bullshit... karma can be a bitch, and hopefully most of those people will trip on the way in and knock out some teeth
  • People sometimes blow my mind.

    You guys should tell the friends in the email about this group.
  • edited October 2008
    //this is Keri on Marc's account
    Wow, I have a goodie. This is an email sent by a former pal from High School. Keep in mind we just agreed that we think people should vote on the issues and not along party lines, so I don't know why she sent this to me (and she knows I'm 100% Obama). I don't even know where to begin - help me respond:


    John Glenn (DEMOCRAT) said this ----- It should make us all think a little:

    There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq in January. In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the month of January. That's just one American city, about as deadly as the entire war-torn country of Iraq . When some claim that President Bush shouldn't have started this war, tell them the following :

    FDR (DEMOCRAT) led us into World War II. Germany never attacked us; Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost ... an average of 112,500 per year.

    Truman (DEMOCRAT) finished that war and started one in Korea . NorthKorea never attacked us. From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost ... an average of 18,334 per year.

    John F. Kennedy (DEMOCRAT) started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us.

    Johnson (DEMOCRAT) turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost ... an average of 5,800 per year.

    Clinton (DEMOCRAT) went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent. Bosnia never attacked us. He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.

    This one is a fact that makes me very mad.

    In the years since terrorists attacked us, President Bush has liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran, and, North Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people. And the Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking.

    But Wait, There's more.
    It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno (DEMOCRAT) to take the Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51-day operation .

    We've been looking for evidence for chemical weapons in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton (DEMOCRAT) to find the Rose law firm billing records.

    It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick

    It took less time to take Iraq than it took to count the votes in Florida!!!
    Our Commander-In-Chief is doing a GREAT JOB! The Military morale is high!
    The biased media hopes we are too ignorant to realize the facts.

    But Wait ....There's more!
    JOHN GLENN (on the Senate floor - January 26, 2004)
    Some people still don't understand why military personnel do what they do for a living. This exchange between Senators John Glenn and Senator Howard Metzenbaum is worth reading. Not only is it a pretty impressive impromptu speech, but it's also a good example of one man's explanation of why men and women in the armed services do what they do for a living.
    This IS a typical, though sad, example of what some who have never served think of the military.

    Senator Metzenbaum (speaking to Senator Glenn):
    'How can you run for Senate when you've never held a real job?'

    Senator Glenn (D-Ohio): 'I served 23 years in the United States Marine Corps. I served through two wars. I flew 149 missions. My plane was hit by anti-aircraft fire on 12 different occasions. I was in the space program. It wasn't my checkbook, Howard; it was my life on the line. It was not a nine-to-five job, where I took time off to take the daily cash receipts to the bank. I ask you to go with me, as I went the other day . .. to a veteran's hospital and look thos e men ... with their mangled bodies ... in the eye, and tell THEM they didn't hold a job!

    You go with me to the Space Program at NASA and go, as I have gone, to the widows and orphans of Ed White, Gus Grissom and Roger Chaffee ... and you look those kids in the eye and tell them that their DADS didn't hold a job.

    You go with me on Memorial Day and you stand in Arlington National Cemetery , where I have more friends buried than I'd like to remember, and you watch those waving flags . You stand there, and you think about this nation, and you have the gall to tell ME that those people didn't have a job?
    What about Metzenbaum? For those who don't remember During W.W.II, Howard Metzenbaum was an attorney representing the Communist Party in the USA .

    Now he's a Senator!

    If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you are reading it in English thank a Veteran.
  • I thought somebody was gonna call him Bananarama for a minute. Scary cultlike people.
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